Most denominations have some sort of social hour before or after services. Conversations with congregants may lead to changes.

Regardless ‘official’ policies,I will be able to protect myself and those that I choose to protect, to the best of my abilities.

Uncommon….

Like I said “…take a closer look at the church leadership (“the key people who drive church policy) its self and what is influencing them.”

And then address that ‘influence’ factor and change minds.

Hush,

I thank you for your reply as well. I think that you are definitely on the right track that the policy makers in my previous and current church–and quite possibly all churches in my neck of the woods–are counting on Divine protection. Equally, I think they find armed self-defense to be very objectionable, flat-out “icky” if you will.

My “pitch” that I am prepared to make covers the notion of expecting 1000% Divine intervention against the backdrop of church members refusing to exercise their God-ordained responsibilities. (Pro-tip: it is anti-Biblical to refuse your responsibilities and expect God to bail you out of your foolishness.) Nevertheless, my pitch, no matter how good or bad, is a moot point if policy makers oppose any discussion.

Saying things another way, I believe that I have an excellent “sales pitch” which is worthless since I cannot get my proverbial “foot in the door”.

.40 cal Booger,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Sadly, I am not seeing anything in your reply that will help me discuss/implement righteous armed self-defense at my church. (That last sentence is not snark directed at you–it is a simple expression of sadness about my church policy makers.)

uncommon_sense: Some religious groups state that they are counting on God to protect them and that is a righteous attitude. However, these same people do not take into account that God did not give them brains for nothing. They fail to consider that the very existence of weapons may just be God’s way of providing protection for his people. Just like some discredit modern medicine without considering that modern medicine may be God’s way of healing people this day and time.

God accomplishes things through mankind. This is not limiting God’s power, rather it is an acknowledgement of his power. Since God is believed to be all powerful, then it is entirely reasonable to believe that God can do all things either with or without mankind. Pray that God will do things and leave the ‘how’ up to God.

Therefore, it is logical to believe in and practice the use of weapons for self protection and the use of modern medicine for sickness. Those who believe otherwise are failing to use the ‘brain’ that God gave them.

Ya know whats odd about this thing and churches though, in general? There are churches where the congregation is mostly left-wing ‘progressive’ and anti-gun but they have armed parishioner security teams or they ‘hire’ what they call ‘armed security’ which is just basically normal armed people who carry legally (that are not actually licensed security or a company) that are ‘conservatives’ to be around when services are held. You see this in some areas of the country even in ‘blue’ areas. I know a guy who does this for a left-wing ‘progressive’ church where he lives, they pay him (and some others) $200.00 every Sunday to be at the church armed during services.

Although you may have what you think is ‘very conservative’ in terms of congregation, take a closer look at the church leadership (“the key people who drive church policy) its self and what is influencing them.

Now, this is not to say that maybe its something like an ‘insurance’ liability concern thing. After all, churches are usually like businesses in many ways or may be about ‘business’ at their core. Then it could simply be ideology influences. ‘conservative’ politically or in ideology doesn’t always mean 100% ‘very conservative’ and ‘conservative’ doesn’t always mean 100% MAGA and guns and God either. And of course, there is the unproven and irrational fear thing about people legally carrying guns and in the ‘ideology softer peace maker’ side of ‘conservative’ in many churches that unproven and irrational fear is present. Then there are maybe concerns for ‘legal’ issues if, for example, one of the armed ‘security team’ has to actually shoot a threat – although it may have been a valid legal defense situation, the threat of a lawsuit against the church could still be possible and exposure to a lawsuit can drain a lot of financial resources from most churches even if the church prevails in the lawsuit. Then there is also the thing that there are still people that believe it will never ever ever happen to them – and it might not and I hope and pray it never happens – but guess what, they do not get to decide if it does or not happen to them as its actually the ‘bad guys’ who get to make that decision so because it does not happen to them so far they take this as meaning they were right when in reality they completely ignore they never had the control over if it happened or not and it simply not happening so far does not mean it will not happen. Then it could be a faith based thing also.

These are not all, the list is long and It could be any number of things as to why a ‘very conservative’ church will not allow an armed security team.

Erik,

I was thinking of posting a similar comment to highlight the kinetic energy of a pickup truck compared to a bullet.

Additional detail: it appears that virtually all of the churches in my county categorically oppose any notion of armed self-defense at church. It is so bad that many members of my previous church even oppose fellow members–who are active duty law enforcement personnel–being discretely armed in church.

Maybe there is something in the water?

.40 cal Booger,

As you can imagine I am eleventy billion percent onboard with armed church members for righteous self-defense. I have not even been able to start an informal discussion much less a formal discussion of armed self-defense at my previous church nor my current church. I brought up the topic as gently, respectfully, and responsibly as possible and the key people who drive church policy immediately and emphatically rejected any notion of armed self-defense without any interest in any discussion whatsoever. I am at a total loss to understand that–especially given that my previous church and current church are very conservative.

I have studied this topic ad nauseum and compiled what is approaching a scholarly white paper covering Bible verses, liability, risk management, tactical considerations, spree-killer dynamics, real world law enforcement response, and expected casualty counts with and without armed resistance. Of course that is all for naught when the key policy makers refuse to even broach the topic.